-The tz250racing Message Boards
+--Forum: Tires, Wheels & Bodywork
+---Topic: What Tires Do You Run? started by Mike
Posted by: Mike on July 17 2002,1:08
Just wondering what Rubber everyone uses on their TZ. Opinions of different brands and lines?
Myself:
Dunlop KR106/KR108 (soft front/medium rear)
Posted by: Dale Whelan on July 17 2002,1:10
Bridgestone
Posted by: Imarmd2 on July 17 2002,1:13
I'm currently running Pilots usually the soft front and rear....
When do you know (before you lose the front) that your tires are in need of replacing. It's not like street riding and you can tell when you need to replace them but with running constantly on the edge of the tires...what should I look for? Does the tire look different other than the obvious shredded tread balled up enough to pull off? What should I look for and feel for as I'm riding?
I have 4 weekends on the front right now... and they seem to be still working great from what little I know. A friend of mine ran a whole season (rides a NSR 250, 8 race weekends, AFM) before replacing...?? I don't know if I want to go that far...but...???dunno
thanks
Marvin
AFM #812 Novice
93 TZR250SP/RC-Sugo
Posted by: Mike on July 17 2002,1:16
Im sure Dale or some of the other veteran racers know better than me, but i would say its a balance of TIME+HEAT CYCLES+MAX TEMPS.
In other words, it all depends. If you run the tires way below their optimum temps. (example, if the best temp for a Bridgstone is 165F. and you run them at a leisurely 135-140F. that makes a difference. On the otherhand if you only run the tires 3 times a year very lightly, but they are 4 years old, you WONT want to keep them. If you race them 1 weekend, very hard, pushing them beyond their recommended temps, cooking them, you may not want to keep them for another event.
Just my humble, inexperienced view on that...
Posted by: Monty on July 17 2002,1:18
For what it's worth I am running Michelin Pilot Inters on my'92.
I only ride track days not race and have done 4 days so far. The wear isn't too bad and the grip is great, but then as I said I'm not racing. I think I can get another 2 days out of them before I need to replace (so far about 450 miles if that helps).
John
Posted by: T3RACING on July 23 2002,12:26
I run Dunlop KR364's in a soft front and medium rear compound and being an intermediate tyre give good levels of grip in the wet and never move in the dry.
These seem to be the choice for most club racers here in the UK and have been around for years. Just make sure when buying a set you check the manufactured date stamped on the side. This is in the form of week/year produced ie 4302 at least i think it's that way around.
Posted by: stevlynam on May 09 2003,6:38
I use pilots,medium rear soft front,done four trackdays on the current set and they still seem fine.
regards
steve
Posted by: craigincali on May 09 2003,9:48
I use Dunlops! I love them, K106 in the front K108 in the rear. Basically Medium in the front , soft in the rear. Nothing better than a soft rear....
Craig
Posted by: Mike on May 09 2003,11:12
Try medium rear / soft front, you may find it gives more feedback.
Posted by: 12PointRacing on May 10 2003,12:48
I concur - soft front/medium rear in the 'Stones is what I used for years on other LW bikes, and use that combo now on my TZ.
Posted by: craigincali on May 10 2003,1:05
Atcually I just came on from the garage, I have a soft front (not limp just soft okay) and a firm rear....I mean medium ass i mean...you know what I mean
Oh I repacked my silencers for teh first time. Easy as pie.
Craig
Posted by: Eric S on May 10 2003,12:38
Here's another vote for Dunlop soft front, med rear.
As for how to tell when tires are worn out. You probably don't want to find out on a TZ. The cost of pre-emptively changing tires is pretty small compared to the cost of a crash. I know, at least on my TZ, I'm riding too close to the edge to recover from what happens when tires "go off".
I've done a lot of endurance races, and there are any number of ways your tires will try to kill you when you use them too long.
1. You hit your front brake at the braking marker, squeeze the lever and nothing happens. In a split second you realize the front tire is locked up, and you aren't slowing down. If you're not already on the ground, let go of the lever, apply as much front and rear brake as you can and try to ride it out. From then on, move your braking markers way back.
2. You get on the gas coming out of a corner (the same way you've done 100 times before), and the rear tries to pass the front. You have to make a quick decision about whether you can save it. If you try to save it, and it's too far out, it's high-side city.
3. Mid-corner one end, or the other will try to jump out from underneath you. Usually it's the front tire. You have to keep the bike up on your knee and nail the gas to try to get the rear to slide. When the rear slides, the front will usually hook back up. When it does, you're usually good to go because the sliding front tire will scrub off a lot of your speed. So you end up slowly riding out of the corner. If the rear comes around, stay steady on the gas and try to flat-track it. If you chop the gas, you'll high side. If you hit the steering stop, you'll high-side. You just have to relax, and let the bike find its own equilibrium.
I was in an endurance race on an R1 in 2001 where I'd lose the front tire once or twice a lap. It was too late in the race to put on a spare, so I rode it out. I had to ride really conservatively, even got passed by a sv650. But riding at 75%, it wasn't a problem to "save it", every time.
I know that if I was riding the TZ at 95%, the chances of saving it would be much, much lower.
Also, when a tire goes off, it almost always surprises you. You're doing the same thing you did every other lap, and suddenly the tire is sliding away. If you can catch it the first time, you can alter your riding style so you won't crash later. But that first time is always a matter of chance.
I'm not willing to take that chance on a TZ ( you have to risk it on an endurance bike, but you're riding a lower intensity), so I change tires often.
Thanks for listening...
Posted by: Mike on May 10 2003,5:36
Eric!
This is an AWESOME article you've written!
With your permission, I'd like to put it on it's own page and feature it as a site feature article from the main page.
Also, anyone with Hi-side or trail-braking or rear-sliding photos, please sned them to me at:
mike@tz250racing.com
Thanks again Eric for the great post!
Posted by: Eric S on May 11 2003,12:03
Mike,
No problem. Feel free to use the article.
My main point, that I want to stress again, is that in my experience, when a tire goes off, it almost always surprises me. In endurance races, I can almost always catch it, in spring races, I almost always crash, or at least get really scared.
Posted by: 12PointRacing on May 11 2003,6:13
Why does it suprise you when, especially in endurance racing, you know to "expect" the upcoming tire issues - and in most cases, know exactly what lap you will start feeling it?
I guess my experience has been almost completley opposite, and have found that I tire issues could actually be traced to me getting tired, and not riding nearly as smooth as I was in the opening laps. Once I start to feel the wiggle of tires going off, for me at least, it signals the time for me to regain focus and retain my concentration on the task at hand.
I guess this would be less of an issue if I were sliding the bike at both ends from the drop of the green flag, but I am not that good yet...:) I guess all of our milege will vary.
Posted by: Eric S on May 11 2003,8:00
I guess I kind of see it like shooting a gun. You know it's going fire, but if you squeeze the trigger slowly and evenly, it'll surprise you (or at least me) every time.
I think it's actually one of the really fun parts of endurance racing.
I guess I can specify that I wasn't intellectually surprised, as you said, it's inevitable the tire will go off. It is the exact moment it happens that is the surprise. For instance, I did a 4 hour race in Monterray, Mexico. The last turn was a banked, bowl turn (180 deg). 2 laps from the end I lost the rear, and nearly high-sided there. I was expecting slides in flat or off-camber turns, but not in the bowl. Also, our place was pretty well set, so I was just riding it in, but it still tried to bite me, in the place I least expected it.
Though I'm not claiming to be a great rider, I will admit that I'm pretty comfortable with bikes wiggling all over the place so the first, and more subtle signs of a tire going off are probably lost in the noise. Also, in all the endurance races I've done, the team owner (rider) weighed 50-60 lbs more than me, so the suspension was set up far too stiff for my puny body, which also made the bikes a lot more prone to wiggle.
Posted by: Mike on May 12 2003,2:09
Article has been added! Featured on < Main Page >, with link to < It's Own Page >.
Thanks Again!
Posted by: mcleonard on July 16 2003,5:34
So if you are preemptively changing tires what do you look for or how do you usually time it? Number of laps, number of heat cycles, something in the wear pattern? I am new to TZs so I find this news of their sudden loss of grip interesting. Of course there are the obvious worn past the indicators clues or dryness of older used tires but I am guessing that you are changing them before it is so obvious, especially since you are saying to change them before they first let go. I rode the same Dunlops on an Aprilia RS250 and it wasn't such a problem, probably due to the lower power and maybe because I just wasn't going that fast.
Posted by: 12PointRacing on July 16 2003,7:13
...I think everyone's milege varies in terms of the performance of their tires due to a variety of factors, most of which come down to rider weight, style, and tire choice.
The Bridgestones are not a "light switch" in terms of how they begin to "go off", and find that heat cycles are the biggest factor in "killing" them. The Dunlops (in my opinion) do go off like a switch, and I found myself having to be more careful as I put more cycles into them -although provide good feedback when they are fresh. The Michelins are my favorite tire, although some people don't like their tendency to not give as much feed back as the Dunlops.
In terms of tire lifespan - it is all in the rider. I run my 'Stones one weekend, and then for practice - that is it. Those same tires would have lasted some people 3 weekends of hard racing. It all comes down to how hard you want to race and how much you are willing to spend. Tires can bt stretched, but your lap times WILL suffer or you will be on the ground. Listen to the tire and what it is telling you and you will be just fine, as ALL tires give good warning on what they are doing, and especially on a TZ.
my .02$.
-dave
Posted by: 94tz250 on April 28 2004,6:14
Whats the feeling about soft front soft rear;. Any drawbacks ? I'm a rookie and the idea of more adhesion apeals to me.
Posted by: Thor7000 on July 30 2004,10:44
Has anyone ever have any expirience with Pirelli slicks?? I am currently running Dunlops but have considered trying Pirelli's.......any thoughts or suggestions
Also, on average how many heat cycles can you get out of a new set of slicks??
Finally, how much do a set of Dunlops cost in the States??
Posted by: Mike on July 30 2004,1:12
I believe i paid $367 for a pair of KR Dunlops last time.. that was in 2002 though, at the track, (in USA) my numbers may not be good anymore though... I have not heard alot of good about the pirellis, although I havnt run them, so i cant really say how they compare.
My personal preference is Dunlops. I rode bridgestones and for some reason they didnt feel as "hooked up" with the track as the dunlops do. Also, it seesm the bridgestones require a longer warm up time than do the dunlops.
Some people swear by the bridgestones though, I prefer the dunlops.
Posted by: crashing333 on Aug. 01 2004,12:55
| Quote (Mike @ July 30 2004,10:12) |
| I believe i paid $367 for a pair of KR Dunlops last time.. that was in 2002 though, at the track, (in USA) my numbers may not be good anymore though... I have not heard alot of good about the pirellis, although I havnt run them, so i cant really say how they compare. My personal preference is Dunlops. I rode bridgestones and for some reason they didnt feel as "hooked up" with the track as the dunlops do. Also, it seesm the bridgestones require a longer warm up time than do the dunlops. Some people swear by the bridgestones though, I prefer the dunlops. |
I guess the Bridgestones have changed since last year... I tried the 'stones last year, and couldn't get comfortable with them. But I gave them another try at the beginning of this year, and now I swear by 'em. They stick good, I've been getting good life (3-4 weekends), and they aren't scary when they go off. And they are much cheaper than dunlop.
Posted by: Mike on Aug. 22 2004,7:38
Anyone else have any remarks about Bridgestone, or if they have noticed a change or improvement since '02?
Posted by: KiwiTZracer on Aug. 23 2004,3:16
| Quote (Mike @ Aug. 23 2004,16:38) |
| Anyone else have any remarks about Bridgestone, or if they have noticed a change or improvement since '02? |
I am running the latest Bridgies, direct from them.
Have been running YDC (soft) front and YCX (med) rear in freezing cold temps ie:1-5 deg C and apart from taking 2 laps to get warm (with no tyre warmers) they have been faultless!
They have improved dramatically over the past year with the motogp compounds filtering down to the smaller sizes, I don't know if they are better than the Dunlops per say (depends on who you talk too) but I haven't even had a moment on the yet and i have pushed them pretty hard recently.
can't wait till summer!
Posted by: Mike on Aug. 23 2004,7:52
Interesting!
Posted by: Rob B on Aug. 23 2004,8:08
I haven't been on anything but Bridgestones, but when I was in Japan, I did a lot of Bridgestone sponsored track days. These track days were free as long as you had their tires and a connection through a tire dealer. At the end of the day, they would ask for comments on the race compound treaded tires and slicks. There was a good mix of All-Japan racers from all classes with us nobodies. I used to be a die hard Bridgestone hater, now I probably won't ride on anything else.
Posted by: colin on Sep. 20 2004,5:37
I've been using pirelli slicks in SC1 compound on my 89W all this year and really like them. I've found that I can go out with cold tyres and have them fully warm at the end of the sighting lap and I could also give it large on the sighting lap without probs.
I had a go on a '99 RS250 this weekend. It was on Dunlop slicks (medium compound I think). Admittedly they were about a year old, however I had problems with them. We were unable to get warmers on them so I had to go out with them cold. On the sighting lap they were spinning up on only a little gas and lean, then they took about 3-4 laps to get up to temp and even then I found that the feedback was not as good as the pirellis.
My 2p worth!
Col.
Posted by: Twinshock750 on Sep. 24 2004,5:03
Don't forget a good new slick from any of the majors will always be a good thing...when compared to a worn one.
The best tyre is the one that you have the cajones to use!! Irrespective of tyre it will usually still come down to the rider to make use of the performance envelope. EG the best rider will still win, even if you have as what is perceived to be the best tyres.
If you get my drift.
The best tyre for you may not be the best for someone else as the characteristics you are looking for could be quite different. You may trade mid corner grip for predictability, stability or turn in or what ever, whereas other riders may want grip at the expense of all other catagories.
When taking that into account, I put the tyres on that I could afford!!!! I had a choice of 1 available front and back ( I was buying second hand!) and it was black, round and had none of that funny grooving I think they call tread.
Dunlop Soft on the front and a Pirelli SC1 rear on my 250U
Al
Posted by: summitdog on Oct. 28 2004,11:19
I've had very good experience on Michelins. I went out to Thunderhill on a front tire that I had in the storage unit for 5 years. After taking it slow for several laps, I started to wick it up. I went into turn one a lot hotter than expected once. While going into the turn I kept thinking, "I'm going down, I'm going down. This is going to hurt." Then on the way to turn 2 I was shouting: "I'm Alive, I'm Alive!!!" If a tire that old can hold up that well, I have no doubt that the new tires will take care of me too.
Posted by: Earl on Aug. 31 2005,3:09
| Quote (Mike @ July 17 2002,01:08) |
| Dunlop KR106/KR108 (soft front/medium rear) |
That's what I run on my KTM motard bike!
I have Pirelli slicks on the TZ right now, I've always liked Pirelli tires, they're very predictable and wear well.
My tire source changed to Bridgestone, so I'll be switching to those in Oct, after I use up my Pirelli slicks in Sept. I did two track days this past w/e and they don't even look worn.
Posted by: T678 on Sep. 28 2005,2:13
Michelin piolits medium
Should I peel off all the crap that builds up in the center at the end of the day? or should I just leave them alone
Posted by: LTR racing817 on Oct. 12 2005,5:13
| Quote (T678 @ Sep. 28 2005,02:13) |
| Michelin piolits medium Should I peel off all the crap that builds up in the center at the end of the day? or should I just leave them alone |
Leave it
If you get dirt,sand, or small rocks brush those off before putting on tirewarmers.
Posted by: T678 on Oct. 12 2005,5:24
thanks for the info -Tyler
Posted by: Roach on Jan. 05 2006,6:07
This really is excellent advice. Tires are cheap. Medical hardware is not (nevermind pricey 250gp parts).
In 2002 I was getting ready for the AMA event at VIR, shaking down the bike at a NESBA track day about 2 weeks prior to the AMA date.
I *knew* the rear bridgestone had some time on it ... but I figured, "Hey ... it's only a track day / test ... it'll be ok".
The resulting high-side shattered my left radius and broke my left foot (the footpeg hairline fractured my center metatarsal through the bottom of my boot when the bike kicked me off!).
As for compounds ... it depends how fast you are. If you're running toward the front, a soft rear is going to last one sprint race (maybe two). Running a medium rear I can go all weekend at a USGPRU event.
The faster you go, the more rear tire you'll chew up. When I first starting riding the 250 in 2000, I could get two, maybe three weekends out of a set of tires. Now I go one rear per weekend, and the front I can run 1.5 weekends (technically, not NOW, as I rode an R6 this year, but in 2004 I raced the TZ). And that's running Dunlops, soft front / Med rear.
- Roach
Posted by: PCP on May 12 2007,1:20
I swear for Dunlop slicks. I´ve run hard compounds with no problems and they last 2-3 trackdays (rear). I´ve also tryed B'stones too and they are fine but I preffer Dunlop. On the other hand I will never ride on michelin slicks again. They tried to kill me in a masive highside completely unexpected; unpredictability is its last name.
Posted by: SVRGP on May 13 2007,12:03
I have an question on tires. Has anyone run the Michelins in durable compound.MI12/60-17SC1295 + #MI16/63-17SC1587D this is the numbers on the tires. Thanks
Posted by: nycstripes on May 19 2007,6:41
I invested in Bridgestone slicks and rains for this season. Looking forward to running them at VIR Memorial Day weekend.
Ken
Posted by: GrahamB on Oct. 07 2007,9:34
After over a year of persevering with Bridgestones, trying different compounds, constructions and pressures, plus every permutationm of suspension and geometry I never succeeded in getting the bike to turn properly. It always felt insecure at the front... and a few big front slides and one crash confirmed that it wasn't just a feeling.
Swapped to Dunlops and immediately went faster and have yet to have a moment with the front. Yes, they cost 25% more...
Posted by: Yard Sale on Oct. 08 2007,4:23
Just did my 11th track day on Bridgestone YCX slicks. No warmers. The rear finally started twitching, on every out lap in very cold weather on a very cold track.
Posted by: LTR racing817 on Oct. 08 2007,6:00
ON the same set?
Posted by: Yard Sale on Oct. 08 2007,6:29
Yes. Eleven days on this pair. Maybe a couple half-days in there when I rode a different bike in the afternoon sessions. Infineon at a B pace at Reno-Fernley at an A pace.
The dimples just disappeared from the left side of the rear. (RFR runs counter-clockwise and I lean farther and drive harder out of lefts.)
Posted by: Yard Sale on Oct. 18 2007,5:43
So I finally got a nasty slide out of the Bridgestone rear. First I blamed the track, then I saw the wear on the left side. Swapped the tire on the rim, checked the pressure, and realized I didn't check the pressure before riding in the morning. I was riding with 34-35 psi in each instead of 28. Duh.
They worked great @ 28 F, 27 R, the rest of the day.
That was my last track day of the season and I'll put on a new rear for next year. The front, I don't know.
Posted by: ian on Jan. 05 2008,4:34
Has anyone tried the pirelli slicks on a 250
Posted by: Dale Whelan on Jan. 06 2008,12:34
several years ago I tried Pirelli. It was a good tire. I normally ride Bridgestones, great value especially with their generous contingency.
Posted by: anand on June 08 2010,2:31
what tyre pressure should i use for my TZ125 with dunlop's...
the same as my TZ250 with dunlop's?
Posted by: anand on June 27 2010,10:31
if i use the dunlop pressure recommendation i'm destroying my tyres.
only if i back down the pressure untill 24 or 23 psi cold she stays ok.
i am talking rear tyres only.
Posted by: anand on Sep. 09 2010,1:42
| Quote (anand @ June 27 2010,10:31) |
| if i use the dunlop pressure recommendation i'm destroying my tyres. only if i back down the pressure untill 24 or 23 psi cold she stays ok. i am talking rear tyres only. |
anybody have these problems to?
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